Rand Fishkin Ex MOZ CEO Tells Why He Left Moz & Started His New Venture

“If you think there’s a keyword density number that Google uses, you are 20 years out of date.” 🔗

At SMXL Milan 2018, I had a dream-come-true interview with Rand Fishkin, former Moz CEO and founder of SparkToro, about building Moz, why he left, and SEO myths. 🎙️

📊 In this episode, we unpacked:

• 📝 Building Moz, and leaving
• 🔗 Nofollow links, TLDs and reviews
• 🧪 Keyword density and judging campaigns
• 📰 Link building journalists crave
• ⚖️ Bought links, PBNs and copied content
• 🎯 Keywords for tight budgets

🎥 Watch the full episode:

📝 Building Moz, and Leaving

Rand dropped out of college and started as a web designer. Clients needed SEO, and they couldn’t afford subcontractors, so he learned it himself. He started the SEOmoz blog in 2003, and blogged five nights a week for three or four years before many people had heard of them, around 2006 or 2007. 📝

He stepped down as CEO in 2014. He and the new CEO tried to make it work but had a lot of conflict, so they decided it was better for him to go, and Moz gave him a very nice severance. For another veteran’s journey, read Bill Slawski’s interview. 🔗

🔗 Nofollow Links, TLDs and Reviews

Do nofollow links matter? Mostly no, sometimes yes. People click them, Google sees that path, some get picked up as followed links elsewhere, and Google may count some with other signals. A nofollow mention from a credible source like Forbes can help a hot new brand rank for its own name. 🔗

There’s no ideal follow-to-nofollow ratio: “If you’re targeting a ratio, you’re probably doing it wrong.” Go after Forbes for its visitors, not to manipulate rankings. Country TLDs like .it help a little in that country, but for an international English brand, go for .com. To beat one bad review, earn 99 good ones through phenomenal customer service. For link data, read Dixon Jones’s interview. 🔗

🧪 Keyword Density and Judging Campaigns

No real expert gives an ideal keyword density. It came from 1990s library science and, Rand said, Google has never used it. The biggest on-page factor is whether content solves the searcher’s query, judged with machine learning, language processing and behavior such as pogo-sticking back to results. 🧪

SEO is trial and error: try something for a few weeks and pivot if it fails. To judge a campaign in advance, check whether it closes the gap between you and the top sites. Ranking “how to lose weight” in three months? Only AdWords does that reliably, unless a viral campaign rides a freshness boost, like up-to-date January content. For a data-led view, read Wil Reynolds’s interview. 🔗

📰 Link Building Journalists Crave

HARO gets you one link from one journalist. Instead, find a topic journalists are hungry to cover and add unique research. 📰

SparkToro analyzed how many spammy Twitter followers Donald Trump had. The research earned around a hundred links from outlets including The Guardian, Forbes, Newsweek, Time, The New York Times and The Washington Post, plus newspapers in India. His role models include Emily Grossman, Dana DiTomaso, Lexi Mills and Camille Ricketts. For more on standing out, read Sean Si’s interview. 🔗

⚖️ Bought Links, PBNs and Copied Content

Old-school paying for links or link networks usually doesn’t work well, but spending money on things that also earn links works great. Rand said he no longer sees breaking Google’s guidelines as a moral issue; it’s a business risk you choose, so do it in a way that’s unlikely to be penalized. PBNs are a cat-and-mouse game; he doubted any had worked four years in a row. ⚖️

Copying content is different: he called it immoral and illegal, since it can violate copyright and trademark law, and a lawsuit can cost you more than you made. He also worried that the internet makes it easy for hateful groups to connect, and said tech companies shouldn’t pride themselves on spreading hate speech.

🎯 Keywords for Tight Budgets

Pick keywords that bring the right customers and amplifiers, are ROI-positive, and aren’t ones Google answers in the results itself. Google answers more queries without sending traffic, so build a brand people search for by name. 🎯

He thought SEO would keep getting harder, but PPC too, with more bidders chasing growth, and Google rewarding ad engagement, not just spend. If PPC in your niche is cheap and you have money, use it; if not, get creative with SEO. Asked about hustle, he said working smart with passion is best, since work expands to fill the time you give it. For a growth hacker’s take, read Hendrik Lennarz’s interview. 🔗

📝 Key Takeaways From the Rand Fishkin Interview

• 📝 Rand blogged five nights a week for years before Moz got noticed
• 🔗 Chase links for visitors, not ratios
• 🧪 Keyword density is a myth
• 📰 Newsworthy research earns links at scale
• 🎯 Choose keywords Google won’t answer itself

❓ FAQs About Rand Fishkin

Why did Rand Fishkin leave Moz?

He had a lot of conflict with the new CEO after stepping down in 2014, so they agreed it was better for him to go.

Do nofollow links help SEO?

Mostly no, but sometimes yes, through clicks and other signals, especially from credible sources.

What is Rand Fishkin’s favorite link building strategy?

Publishing unique research on a topic journalists are hungry to cover.

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Has newsworthy research ever earned you links? Tell me in the comments. 💬

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